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The LOTR Movie Site
November 19, 2000 Tolkien & Sandboxes:
Another Response to Max B.
Brian M.
Greetings. Point form for these sorts of discussions is fine
with me. Especially given how many of us you have to reply to. Though, if possible, I
would request that you cut and paste a snippit of the point you're responding to, as it
only takes a second and makes reading much easier.
1. "Ah, too subtle for me."--As I reread it, subtlety had nothing to do with it.
It was just a stupid way to start that essay; one that did not reflect well on me and I
now regret.
2. "No, through exaggeration the point becomes ridiculed rather than
addressed."--I've had several discussions with postmodern relativists and I've seen
how this response is often employed. Invariably, it's a way to divert attention away from
the uncomfortable fact that their position, unfortunately, ends up being
"ridiculous" when carried to its logical conclusion. Kind of a way to have their
cake and eat it too: They deny there is any real, unmoving frame of reference (without
which the term "extreme" is meaningless), but want to impose one
extemporaneously to prevent their views being carried to said "extremes." I'm
afraid that's what's happening here. Unless you can provide me with a reason why your
position can't go there, don't blame me for pointing it out.
3. "And I think, with your words on God, that I've seen our disagreement can never
really be reconciled, as we come from entirely different discourses on
life/philosophy."--I noticed that earlier, which is why I've been trying to gear the
majority of my responses to deal with the postmodern foundations on which your arguments
rest rather than attacking your points directly. And you're right, our positions are
likely diametrically opposed to one another, but it does not necessarily follow that
discussion is therefore worthless. We just need to focus on the real issues, not just what
rises to the surface. More on this in #6.
4. "Arwen can have an active role in the fellowship without having to slay everything
in sight."--Once again, I don't think anyone has a problem with it being an active
role, but rather with the fact that it's "in the Fellowship." It's simply
unnecessary to put her in the there to accomplish what you want.
5. "Hmmm, well we could move it elsewhere."--Suggestions? A neutral forum will
be hard to find, unless we create it ourselves.
6. "In any case, I can't see how I can possibly admit your distaste for PM or PPM any
further than I did."--This is understandable, given that I've refrained from offering
any of my arguments against it for the sake of staying on topic. It's just that every
person I've met that holds to PM or PPM also displays an implicit faith that their
position is unassailable. I've found that PM, in particular, is fatally flawed on both the
practical and theoretical levels, and it surprises me how many of its adherents have never
actually thought through their own position. I suppose that section of my response was
intended to be a gentle prod in the direction of true open-mindedness, suggesting that you
not dismiss my arguments off-hand before you've even heard them. My questions now are,
"Is your position, as you hold to it, actually falsifiable? Is it conceivable that I
could prove you wrong?" My position has historically held up concrete assertions
that, if disproved, would negate the value of the system itself. If yours does not offer
any such claims, then not only is the point of practical discussion moot, but it all
degenerates back into a question of blind faith. If it does, what are they? [Again, I
hesitate to embark on this, for fear of bothering other readers. Webmaster, if you think
this too off topic, we will refrain and/or take it elsewhere.]
7. "Are we to believe that simply because Tolkien wrote this book (which was more or
less reinterpretations of older myths that he did not write), that nobody else is allowed
to play in the sandbox?"--I'll content myself with replying to this for the sake of
time and space, minus the cosmic connotations sometimes attached to those words ;). In
short, there is no problem with authors building on the work of others or even just
synthesizing it at times. I do both myself nearly every day as a historian. But we must
draw a line between that sort of endeavor and interpretation. The two are not synonymous.
My problem isn't with people who "want to play in the sandbox" so to speak. It's
with those who want to perform major renovations on existing sandcastles built by other
architects and pretend it's still the original, all in the name of interpretation. If
someone wants to look at Tolkien and say, "the man was a genius", and then build
on his work in something of their own, that's just fine. To continue the analogy, if they
want to examine Tolkien's sandcastle and then incorporate parts of it into their own
creation (Much like Tolkien did with existing Scandinavian mythology, as you pointed out),
then they should feel free to do so. What we're talking about here is something different.
PJ isn't creating his own Tolkien-influenced fantasy movie. In theory he's trying to
translate Tolkien's sandcastle into another medium, an ice sculpture, for instance. Given
his stated goal, therefore, I see no excuse for artistic liberties not dictated by
necessity (for instance, I have no problem with the rewrite of the Prancing Pony scene
mentioned in the spy report on 11-14). As example of interpretation gone wrong, take that
abysmal rendition of the Arthur legends (with which I am also familiar) called "First
Knight". Had the director simply given all the characters and places new names and
kept the Arthurian flavor, it would have been an excellent movie, one that I would have
enjoyed. But since they tried to tie it into Arthur, I spent the whole movie shaking my
head (especially when Lancelot became king of Camelot!). It wasn't interpretation, it was
recreation. Other than the fact that they happened to share the same names, the characters
in that movie had little or nothing in common with the "real" ones. If they had
simply admitted this from the beginning by offering it as a new story influenced by the
previous one, it would have been much more effective. I'm even ok with something that
explores existing characters in new situations, so long as the characters are as
"true to form" as possible, though these will always find themselves on thin ice
with "purists." "First Knight" was neither here nor there and
consequently suffered greatly (as I did upon viewing it). A decent interpretation, on the
other hand, can be found in the movie "Excaliber." Many of the legend's main
points are incorporated into the movie itself in an interesting way, and in scenes not
directly mentioned in the originals, we find the characters acting in ways mostly
consistent with the how they're portrayed in the "canon." I would also point to
the majority, but not all, of the BBC Sherlock Holmes series with Jeremy Brett as
excellent examples of transferring books onto film. "The Adventure of the Dying
Detective" posed a particular challenge, but they handled it well, in the manner I
advocate.
T'is late. G'night all. Best regards. |